Friday, April 8, 2011

JRKmommy's Comments

Sooooooooooooo JRKmommy left me two comments in two previous threads so it was blocked by Blogspot's comment moderation. I have set my blog to automatically put comments on old threads as pending in order to avoid spam.




In general, I will not be accepting comments on an old thread and if you have something to say on an old thread, please say it in the latest thread. Thanks.




Anyways, since I need something to post about, here are JRK's 2 comments and my repsonses:

The first one is about abortion.


>> It's a health issue issue when a rheumatologist can't refer a woman with severe, unstable lupus for an abortion in her 14th week because the hospitals don't offer it anymore due to fear of protesters. It's a health issue when a woman in her 20th week with ruptured membranes and a raging infection ends up dying because the Catholic hospital refuses to operate as long as there is a fetal heartbeat. My husband was involved in the first case, my brother-in-law in the second. There is nothing "pro-life" about letting women die.
By JRKmommy on Abortion Is Not A Health Issue at 6:28 AM




My answer:



I am (along with mainstream pro-lifers) ok with abortion in the case where the mother's life are at risk.





The second one is about the Jesus issue. One I'd rather not discussed but JRK brought it up.



>> 1. The penalty for pre-marital sex is marriage, not death. 2. Betulah is used more often than almah in the Tanach, and it is the term used when referring to a technical, hymen-intact, never-had-sex virgin. While in other instances almah may happen to be used to describe a young single woman, it doesn't have the same technical virgin connotation. 3. Even if almah refers to a girl who happens to be a virgin in other cases, you'd usually presume that a woman who conceives is not, by definition, a virgin. If not, you'd expect the text to highlight this fact by using betulah to make it crystal-clear that this was something that would defy nature. Out of curiosity - why do you call yourself a secular Jew instead of a Christian?
By JRKmommy on Shalmo The Dishonest Debater




1. The penalty for rape is marriage (Deuteronomy 22:28-29) and the penalty for premarital sex is asta lavista baby kaploooww!!!!! (Deuteronomy 22:13-21).



Look, the bible simply does not deliniate almah and betulah as specifically as anti-missionaries claim. God used the two words interchangeably.




As for your last question of what I call myself, I'll leave that for you to meditate on. XD




Thanks for posting.

10 comments:

JRKmommy said...

Thanks for clarifying the commenting procedure.

Re abortion for medical reasons:

I understand the "opposed to abortion but would make exceptions for saving the mother" argument. The issue is how it plays out in real life.

I live in a jurisdiction with absolutely no legal limits on abortion, and yet the situations I described happened. When protesters create an atmosphere of fear and hospitals stop offering services, they don't magically reappear just because you have a case of medical necessity. It's also not easy to get a consensus on the definition of medical necessity. Does it mean that a woman is literally minutes away from death, in which case it may be too late to do anything? Does it may that there is a higher-than-average risk of death?

JRKmommy said...

Read Exodus 22:15

If a man shall seduce a virgin who was not bethrothed and lie with her, he shall provide her with a marriage contract as his wife. If her father refuses to give her to him, he shall wiegh out silver according to the marriage contract of the virgins.

The commentary that I have on Deut. 22:15 indicates that it is referring specifically to the case of a woman who was a virgin at the time of the betrothal (kiddushin) but not at the time that the marriage was completed (nesuin), meaning that there would have been adultery.

SJ said...

>> I live in a jurisdiction with absolutely no legal limits on abortion, and yet the situations I described happened

I think protesters would be calmer if it were clearer that abortion was only for REAL life threatening medical risks (which is ok) and NOT as a form of birth control.

>> The commentary that I have on Deut. 22:15 indicates that it is referring specifically to the case of a woman who was a virgin at the time of the betrothal (kiddushin) but not at the time that the marriage was completed (nesuin), meaning that there would have been adultery.

Could be the case, could not be the case since the commentary is not in the Torah and I'm personally skeptical of oral law kind of stuff. In any case, to say that premarital sex is anywhere near allowed in traditional judaism is simply untrue.

JRKmommy said...

Premarital sex is certainly not encouraged in traditional Judaism, but if the woman waits for 7 clean days after her period, goes skinny dipping in a natural body of water, and if the man and woman get married after the deed, then technically no biblical law has been violated.

SJ said...

PREMARITAL SEX IS DISALLOWED IN TRADITIONAL JUDAISM.

JRKmommy said...

Oh, I never really noticed that point until reading it in ALL CAPS - now I'm convinced, lol.

Seriously, what are your sources?

I'm not saying that it is encouraged in any way, and traditional Jewish communities will do their utmost to make sure it doesn't happen by limiting opportunities for unrelated men and women to be together, and by making most mikvahs open to married women only.

Much of that is either oral law or more modern rabbinic degree, however. Do you have anything showing that the scenario I described (skinny dipping before the deed and marriage afterward) is actually forbidden by the written Torah?

SJ said...

My sources? I wonder what would happen if a dude (not that anyone would want to) were to try to boink a single girl from Kiryas Joel or Mea Sheriam .....

they'll go all taliban on him and he may not come out alive. XD

To be honest JRK you're lying to me. Fuck off bitch. Do I look like some dumb ass jury that you can run circles over with your law degree?

Go back to your kitchen. XD

Ksil said...

SJ, you got roasted!! Lolollol!!!!!

Cant take the heat?

SJ said...

Seems to me I did the roasting. Ksil go back to your arts and crafts.

Garnel Ironheart said...

JRK, the prohibitions are in the Written Torah as well as the Oral Torah.
First of all, in Jewish law sex has legal consequences. It can, if done with the right intentions, create a marital state between a man and a woman. Certainly the Torah is clear that there are penalties for non-consensual intercourse as well. Finally there are the general prohibitions against whoring around so yes, this time SJ is right (had to happen, law of odds and all...) when he says the Torah prohibits premarital intercourse.