Monday, March 16, 2009

SJ on Metaphysics

I often wonder about God, if he exists, and the nature of him if he does exist.

It would seem to be that it would be impossible for God to have an infinite set of powers.

1) It would seem to me that finite beings such as human beings can theoretically create more powerful beings i.e. genetic engineering and robotics. Can an infinite being create a more powerful being? I would think not. Thus an infinite being would have an element of finiteness.

2) Can God change the laws of mathematics? To put it in a simpler way, can God change 1+1 = 2 to 1+1=5? It would seem to me that even if God were to make it so that if one is added to one, five of something appears, to God 1+1 would still equal 2. It would seem to me that mathematics is a framework that God if he exists is beholden to.

It would seem to me that the idea of God is one that approaches infinity but is not pure infinity.

30 comments:

jewish philosopher said...

There are no laws of mathematics. Math is just a very precise, logical way of thinking.

SJ said...

are you absolutely sure that math does not have any laws?

thecheerer said...

"It would seem to me that finite beings such as human beings can theoretically create more powerful beings i.e. genetic engineering and robotics. Can an infinite being create a more powerful being? I would think not. Thus an infinite being would have an element of finiteness."

-Not being able to limit oneself is not a limitation. Your saying that since G-d cannot limit himself to the extent that something is great then him is bad? If he could create something greater what would the being be able to do? G-d can do ANYTHING!!!

SJ said...

cheerer get some sleep and come back in the morning when you have a coherent answer.

Anonymous said...

great answer. I love how when you cant respond you just attack the writer

SJ said...

if you can't understand why cheerer's response was nothing more than rgesaZv eerg 343f 53v svsvwefw then you need to go back to school.

Anonymous said...

Or maybe you need to go back to school because you are too stupid to understand.
Its also funny how you have to go to your lord and master Kvetcher about everything. Does he let you pitch ever or are you still always the catcher?

SJ said...

i'll answer in your language, zzefdazszvrfgefcd w4resgfdrg r5egrdfr grse ggr ergr e rsrew gsd w fwe ewfsesw wesfterhtrg szcrg 43wef232 zxzzsdssa zzxzgerbthfcxc z.

Garnel Ironheart said...

Yeah, you're doing so well without my help, aren't you.

Listen, JP is right. Math has no laws. All mathematics is a series of logical deducations based on fixed values. To put it simply, there''s no law that 1 & 1 = 2. It's just easily demonstrable.

Physics has laws because you have to account for both logical processes and fixed variables. For example, gravity is 9.8 m/s2. That's a law because the 9.8 is the fixed variable. Anything you do with that law mathematically follows through logically.

As for your response to the Cheerer, stopped pleasuring yourself while typing. You'll ruin your keyboard.

SJ said...

Garnel, ever hear of the scientific method? Show me an instance where 1 + 1 != 2 and i'll cede that 1 + 1 = 2 is not a law.

Garnel Ironheart said...

You're don't understand the meaning of the word "law" when it comes to science. Here, go read this page. He quickly defines what "law" means when scientific subjects are being discussed.

http://wilstar.com/theories.htm

SJ said...

Only in your warped head 1+1=2 is a theory and not a law.

Garnel Ironheart said...

First of all, if I want abuse, I'll send a friendly e-mail to OTD.

Secondly, you are missing the point: science is a field of knowledge in which certain words have very, very specific meanings. You are interchanging "law" and "theory" because you don't see the difference but for scientists the difference is crucial.

Oh why do I bother. Hey, OTD, I think your sister was on my blog the other day...

SJ said...

Garnel you brought up the word theory first. Just show me one god damn example of one plus one not being equal to two and i'll give in and say it's not a law.

Garnel Ironheart said...

You're not listening. When using scientific terminology, you don't say 1 & 1 = 2 is a law. That's not how you use the word in the scientific community. The term used is logal conclusion.
You want to call it a law, fine. But you're not using the word the right way.

SJ said...

Go ahead and use that line of "reasoning" to a scientist or yet even better a mental health professional, and see how far that gets you.

Garnel you are just tryin to act smart and you are makin a fool out of yourself.

Garnel Ironheart said...

> Go ahead and use that line of "reasoning" to a scientist or yet even better a mental health professional, and see how far that gets you.

Um, since I'm actually both of the above, I think that makes me a wee bit more qualified than you.

SJ said...

what did you pay your professors for your grades or something?

Ari said...

tee hee . . . I'm glad I stumbled upon your blog.

Somewhat entertaining.

Question: How is your question regarding 1 + 1 any different than the age old - Can God make rock that he can't lift?

thecheerer said...

"Can God make rock that he can't lift?"

Again (although it seems SJ doesnt understand) G-ds inability to limit himself is NOT a limitation. Anyone who has taken philosophy 101 would understand this concept

SJ said...

I never mentioned anything about God limiting himself. Cheerer is basing his whole argument against me based on something I never even said nor implied.

thecheerer said...

a rock that G-d cannot lift OR (in your example) being able to create a being more powerful then G-d who can do anything is implying a limitation on his powers

SJ said...

>> a rock that G-d cannot lift OR (in your example) being able to create a being more powerful then G-d who can do anything is implying a limitation on his powers

no it isn't implying a limitation on his powers. cheerer you are a shmuck.

להבל וריק said...

God is limited to the progress of science. As soon as doctors invent a cure for a disease, she starts to perform miracles for people with that disease.

At the moment, god cannot yet heal amputees. But give her another 50 years or so for stem cell research to make some progress, and you'll see god do the most amazing 'miracles'.

So can god create something more powerful then herself?
Well, only if scientists can up with a way to do it for her.

Ari said...

"no it isn't implying a limitation on his powers."

So then, in your words, what is it implying?

The impression I got from your post was the fact that G-d can't create a rock he can't lift (or make 1 + 1 = 3) somehow means that he isn't the All-Powerful being the religious make Her out to be . . .

Anonymous said...

exactly Ari, I was going to say the same thing.

DK said...

Come on SJ you are making us look bad.

SJ said...

DK, I was on my post for this thread speaking in terms of whether or not an INFINITE being can create a more powerful being;


not in terms of an infinite being making himself less than infinite in order to make a more powerful being - as certain retards have been thinking that I have been doing.

Anonymous said...

You keep not understanding the point. How can an infinite being create something more powerful???? god your are stupid

DK said...

SJ, they are right. Just give it up and admit you are wrong.