Monday, December 1, 2008

Jewish Philosopher LIES

jewishphilosopher.blogspot.com, an orthodox extremist on the internet, wrote that [Orthodox] judaism is about providing a balance of pleasure. This is completely wrong. Orthodox Judaism based on perayshut, which is an hebrew expression for the avoidance of pleasure, basically the hebrew equivalent of the word asceticism.

Let's be honest JP.

32 comments:

Off the Derech said...

Yeah, JP is the worst.

Anonymous said...

no your are wrong SJ. If it was all about avoiding pleasure why would we be required to drink wine for kiddish or be allowed to eat meat or have sex at all? It may be limited compared to your "anything goes" attitude but for some there is exactly as he says a balance of pleasure.

SJ said...

Ok let's talk about television. Television does indeed have some things not worth watching, but television also has some great stories on it that don't come from the gutter, yet the orthodox tries to ban television across the board.

The point is so to speak, why does Captain Kirk have to be banned from the orthodox community for what Jerry Springer does? The answer is avoidance of pleasure, not "balance of pleasure."

Garnel Ironheart said...

No, the Orthodox do not universally ban television, only some parts of it.

As for Captain Kirk, I've seen the trailer for Star Trek XI over a dozen times by now. Can you say the same thing?

The difference between secularism and religion is that the former demands its rights and the latter its responsibilities. People who reject authority and want to live life in the here and now without any consequences generally scream about their rights. Religious people have other concerns.

SJ said...

>> No, the Orthodox do not universally ban television, only some parts of it.

My own experience with the orthodox world would disagree with that statement.

>> The difference between secularism and religion is that the former demands its rights and the latter its responsibilities.

So, let me understand this, wanting rights is a bad thing?

>> People who reject authority and want to live life in the here and now without any consequences generally scream about their rights. Religious people have other concerns.

I rejected orthodox judaism in part because I would like to be an individual, not apart of a borg collective.

Anonymous said...

"My own experience with the orthodox world would disagree with that statement."

Have you ever stopped to think maybe you have had some bad experiences that arent typical of real orthdox judaism?

"I rejected orthodox judaism in part because I would like to be an individual, not apart of a borg collective."

Star Trek nerd are we? Also if you really think that all religious jews are exactly alike you are blind and just plain ignorant. There are so many different ways to be a religious jew, just look at the torah. While there are guidelines there isn't just one way within that box

Margo said...

Hey, there's a new private OTD blog for OTD people only. If you're interested in becoming a reader and/or author, you can email me at outside.the.ballroom@gmail.com. It's called Haven, Not Heaven, and it's meant to be a safe place for OTD people to come together without having to constantly defend themselves from religious people. Hope to see you there!

SJ said...

>> Have you ever stopped to think maybe you have had some bad experiences that arent typical of real orthdox judaism?

No, because my bad experiences were from the mainstream orthodox community.


>> Also if you really think that all religious jews are exactly alike you are blind and just plain ignorant.


if they walk like ducks, quack like ducks, one's a duck and one's a geese? O.o


>> There are so many different ways to be a religious jew


.... as long as you follow this, and this, this, and this, this, and this, this, and this, this, and this, this, and this, this, and this, this, and this, etc ....... 100,000,000,000,000,000 more times.

Garnel Ironheart said...

> My own experience with the orthodox world would disagree with that statement.

So who cares about your experience? You've met all the Orthodox in the world? You're qualified to make such statements? You've met a few you don't like and have extrapolated to the rest. Now who's close minded?

> So, let me understand this, wanting rights is a bad thing?

No, wanting rights while rejecting responsibility for the way you use those rights is a bad thing.

As for Margo, she and OffTheDerech exemplify the limitations of anti-frum thinking. Invite-only blogs, censored or rejected comments that disagree with their anti-inflammatory statements, all the while claiming that WE, the frum, are the ones who reject debate and intelligent discourse.

Look in the mirror. Any philosophy/theology including anti-religion/atheism that deals with opposition by censoring it out so its own weak arguments don't have to be defended is no better than the imaginary religious boogey man these same groups have created.

Off the Derech said...

Garnel:
You're even worse than JP. At least everyone knows HE'S crazy.

But I do love when you discuss Margo and I. It gives me excellent fodder for my blogs. Do keep it up!

And in case you forgot--you're full of shit. big time.

What do you say, Margo and SJ? Think we should invite Garnel? ;)

Off the Derech said...

Oh, and we censor everyone out? If I recall correctly, I never moderated or deleted comments for the first three months of my blog. It's not my fault Nazis like you and JP never know when to shut up.

Maybe if you'd actually say the truth (gasp) once a yoivel, you'd actually get a reader or two (gasp), and wouldn't have to spend your days trolling on everybody else's blogs. Until then, enjoy your bullshit.

Garnel Ironheart said...

Still looking for that life you haven't found yet, OTD?

All right, despite your denying it, I've tried to be nice. I think I'll try a more direct approach.

Here you are complaining I called you a Nazi, even though I never did. And what do you do? You call me a Nazi. That's called hypocrisy, boy. If you don't believe me, ask that English teacher of yours.

You call me a liar, although you have no proof of it. Yet I'm the one who's crazy?

Truth is: You don't have answers to the challenging questions religious people can ask you. Either because one Dawkins book doesn't educate you enough to have an intelligent discussion on the subject or because, despite what Margo and your friends say, the answers atheists use are NOT so cut and dried and obvious. So to avoid losing an argument, you either ignore them, censor them out, or swear at them. If you don't see something familiar in that, go back and read your blog. It's all you seem to do.

I don't doubt you'll put up yet another post (yawn) about how horrible I've been to you (yawn) and how much you've mentally suffered (yawn, sigh) but really, the whole thing is getting old. If anyone is in need of a high fibre diet because he's full of feces, it ain't me, it's you.

As for trolling other blogs, hey what I do with my time while being productively employed is my business. I'm still working on getting SJ to swear at me, something I've been unsuccessful with despite my best efforts. I guess he has more restraint than you. Of course, that's not too hard, given your track record.

Off the Derech said...

Keep your feces, doc.
Or just keep bullshitting all over the place. Maybe someone someday will listen to you.

SJ said...

>> So who cares about your experience? You've met all the Orthodox in the world? You're qualified to make such statements? You've met a few you don't like and have extrapolated to the rest. Now who's close minded?

Garnel, your argument would hold water if orthodox judaism was a culture that embraces individuality. The case is, it's not.


>> No, wanting rights while rejecting responsibility for the way you use those rights is a bad thing.

Charedim in Israel reject army service and work.

Also Garnel, with all the censorship that exists in the orthodox jewish community, you should not complain if the nonreligious wants a private meeting place.

Garnel, they should add a sales/marketing course to your rabbi school, because I highly doubt that calling prospective followers nazis (which you did do to offthed in an underhanded manner) is the best way of winning over their hearts and minds.

And lastly Garnel do you really think it is appropriate behavior for a rabbi to try to get someone to curse at him?

Margo said...

LOL
Go SJ and OTD! :D

Off the Derech said...

Margo:
:D

SJ:
Thanks for agreeing that Garnel called me a Nazi. It means a lot to me.
You're always welcome on our new blog, you know.
Oh, and I agree with you that Garnel's mission to get you to use profanity is rather unholy. What Garnel needs, clearly, is a dominatrix, not a computer.

His Lordship, Garnel Ironheart said...

> if orthodox judaism was a culture that embraces individuality. The case is, it's not.

Ask Rav Avi Weiss about that. He'd strongly disagree with you.

> Charedim in Israel reject army service and work.

The majority of junior officers in the army in Israel are National Religious. National Religious are also disproportionately represented in most major professional fields in Israel.

> (which you did do to offthed in an underhanded manner)

Once again, I did not and if you used the head on your shoulders to think (instead of the one between your legs) you'd go back and review my comment and see that I not only did not call him Hitler, I didn't call anyone Hitler. I used the "H" name in a list to make a point. That's all.

> Garnel do you really think it is appropriate behavior for a rabbi to try to get someone to curse at him?

But you've done it to so many people, I feel left out.

And getting OTD to do it isn't much of a challenge. Just saying hello to him seems to do the trick.

> Thanks for agreeing that Garnel called me a Nazi. It means a lot to me

Yes, even if it's not true.

Sigh. Small mind x small ideas = big stupidity.

Off the Derech said...

Garnel:
You sound much more relaxed now. I'm glad you listened to my advice.
So what's her name?

Garnel Ironheart said...

No, no, you're getting all confused, OTD. It's SJ that has the girl issues, remember?

Off the Derech said...

whoa, someone's in denial.

Garnel Ironheart said...

Yes, someone is but everytime I point it out to him, and you for that matter, I get vulgarity back.

Sigh. It's hard to be right all the time. Hard, but worth it.

Off the Derech said...

Oh, I forgot.
Halacha doesn't allow you to get a domme.
No wonder you take out all your anger on us.
Dude, it's not my fault, it's god's. Leave me the hell alone, and enjoy your chumras.

rabbi lars said...

ha

lsrs said...

yes tv should be banned, our divine soul light would be sucked through cables and give magic to rats, or, blow up a few satellites!!

Anonymous said...

say YES to shomer negiah because then you wont have to touch someone like SJ!!!

SJ said...

don't you mean "say YES to shomer negiah because the orthodox have dirty beards?"

Kvetcher said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Garnel Ironheart said...

Owwwwwwwwww!!!!!!

You just gonna let that stand, SJ?

DK said...

please be advised,

Someone is impersonating me on this site. Please ban the IP of the offender.

DK said...

Garnel Ironheart, why are you impersonating me on this blog?

Kvetcher said...

HAHAHAHA! WE WONT HEAR FROM DK!!!WOOHOO!!!

DK said...

At least they can shave their beards but you will always be unable to satisfy girls