>> Either the Law exists or its abrogated. Jesus by supporting the asherit ha debirot pretty says its active; why else would he say not an iota of the Law (Torah) will vanish till heaven and earth pass away. Paul is the only one who ever says Jesus committing suicide somehow removes it for the rest of Jewry
James was killed because he diverged from the orthodoxy. The New Testament has a number of instances where Jesus diverged from the orthodoxy. If you read James it seems he mostly cared about good deeds which makes it so he don't in fact contradict Paul.
>> And yes I DO QUESTION YOUR SINCERITY; because you just told me the reason you chose Christianity is because you want to be with a conservative community. This does not sound like something a sincere convert would say. Jesus is a matter of convenience for you, he is not someone you would give your life for. Again if tomorrow someone came threatening to kill you and you could save yourself by giving Jesus up, would you take up the offer? Come on, you and I both know the real answer.
I spoke of the Christian community being more prone to conservatism than the secular Jewish community as a reason, not theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee reason. Stop being dishonest Shalmo.
Also, anyone can boast. Noone really knows what they would do in that situation. Probably tell the guy with the gun what he wants to hear and then go about my business. XD
>> There is no insulting going on, remember you are the one who used the ad hominems in the previous threads, I didn't. I am only engaging in a friendly discussion of your decision to be a Christian.
Your side of the conversation wasn't too friendly.
>> As far as my so-called pimping is concerned, if you must know I believe in God, but not Torah MiSinai. But I do believe Torah in various defines what a Jew is, even if a person don't believe in it. A Jew is anyone who identifies with the people this book is about. And yes Orthodox Judaism gets on my nerves for all the reasons you have raved about in this blog, but I have never advocated atheism. I have always advocated approaching religion with rationalism, because I do believe in the divine, but not the special people crap. Which is also why christianity gets on my nerves, because here again you have an "elect" as the Pauline epistles point out, who gain salvation while the rest of us burn in Hell. Its the same special people bullcrap reinvented.
I see, so you want the Torah without the hard stuff. XD
Christianity focuses more on character development rather than rituals. i.e. Ever try letting it go when someone really wronged you? It's haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard. I'm not sure I'm at that level.
5 comments:
first check out the lecture by John Thatamanil and then get back to me !
Thatamanil sounds like a hippy if you ask me. Fact is every religion has its own unique message.
i.e.
Orthodox Judaism - God gave the Torah to Moses and the jews have to find ways to separate themselves from worldly pleasures to achieve henosis.
Islam- Muhammad is God's prophet and the Muslims have to fast for one month per year and abstain from alcohol; but other than that hallel is more chilled out than kasharut, and everyone has to visit Mecca at least once etc; and in some cases Muslims have to fight wars for God.
Buddhism- Life sucks, stfu and deal with it.
Taoism- There is a way for everything, don't mess with it. lol
Hinduism- Live better and be reincarnated better, live worse and be reincarnated worse.
These religions have very different messages.
Christianity's message as it seems to me is that humanity is doomed because of everyone's individual imperfections and God himself came to Earth to take the heat for humanity so people can go to heaven.
Being a good person without belief is not the criterion for salvation because noone is perfect except God who came to Earth. Belief in Jesus is required to have our imperfections paid for.
That being said, I won't presume to say that I know where God is going to be sending people when we pass on.
As far as the Jews go, the New Testament tacitly maybe more than tacitly gives the Jews a pass for not believing in Jesus.
The lecture is about reinterpreting Christianity, removing Paul's concept on everyone else going to Hell, and instead focusing on humanistic interpretations of the religion. Seeing it as one of many paths to God. Definitely a much better fit than OJ or traditional Christianity, particularly evangelism.
Islam has this really kool idea that a prophet was sent to every nation, and Mohammed is just another one of them. And on the ground floor it emphasizes "adab" or human ethics, over ritual and theology. I like the doctrine that the names of God are written on the hearts of man rather than texts, and different traditions allow oneself to manifest them. The progression spiritual development stuff is also nice.
Buddhism is not my favourite cup of tea because the idea of ending one's own sense of self doesn't match what is possible in reality. Still the emphasis on humanism and the idea that as new information is introduced the believers should be willing to accomodate and change their tradition for it, is perhaps what makes it most attractive.
Glad you brought up hinduism. They say since Jewry were persecuted in Europe they stayed Jews, but if they ever would have moved to India the hospitality of the people would have had them abandon Judaism en mass :)
Hinduism shows an amazing ability to adapt to changing times. The gods themselves keep changing, but this isn't an issue because the gods are simply representations of the divine. Different hindu villages use different idols to make intercession with God, but all of them agree they are worshipping the same God. If there is a religion for all mankind, this would be it.
Point is all the religions, or shall we say worldviews, pretty much have a common ground. Which is exactly what John Thatamanil is arguing.
I strongly disagree with your claim that the NT gives Jews a pass for denying Jesus. John 8 has Jesus refer to Jewry as sons of Satan for example. Mathew has all of Israel literally take on the blame for rejecting Jesus; "his blood giult is upon us".
But regardless religions provide a framework for morality, but they are not the source for it. If Christianity is what works for you then go for it, my only recommendation is the John Thatamanil approach vs what you see with say traditional evangelicals or Catholics
Personally I like living in Canada. Seeing the different creeds work together for the common good does kick OJ in the ass for claiming to be the light unto the gentiles. If any nation is the light unto the gentiles, its multicultural ones like Canada and Australia, because only there do you see people from different walks of life growing spiritually together. And its the common humanism elicited between them that has allowed them to do this, not archaic texts.
>> The lecture is about reinterpreting Christianity, removing Paul's concept on everyone else going to Hell, and instead focusing on humanistic interpretations of the religion. Seeing it as one of many paths to God. Definitely a much better fit than OJ or traditional Christianity, particularly evangelism.
I don't think anyone can say where God is going to be sending people despite what any text might say.
>> Islam has this really kool idea that a prophet was sent to every nation, and Mohammed is just another one of them. And on the ground floor it emphasizes "adab" or human ethics, over ritual and theology. I like the doctrine that the names of God are written on the hearts of man rather than texts, and different traditions allow oneself to manifest them. The progression spiritual development stuff is also nice.
Well, in traditional Jewish belief which predates Islam every nation was given a chance to accept the Torah and they rejected it. I'm not too impressed with Islam since Islamic countries have some of the lowest civil rights ratings and tons of antisemitism, antiwestern sentiment etc.
Hinduism isn't angels i.e. caste system and burning widows.
I prefer more of a sola scriptura approach to the bible to the extent possible. I'm not really into one particular denomination over another even though sola scriptura is a protestant idea.
I'm not impressed with the Thatamanil approach. It's not even factual that all religions lead to the same place since all the religions have different messages.
Romans 11:26- All Israel will be saved, without even stating a requirement for all Jews to believe in Jesus.
Read John 8, Jesus is clearly referring only to his pharisee antagonists as children of the devil.
Canada has free speech, except for Ann Coulter. In Canada offending someone is literally a crime. lol In the USA, free speech is exactly for the speech that you don't like.
Paul is pretty good to bring gentiles closer to Torah but I think any real understanding of Jesus has to go through the eyes of his brothers and disciples that knew him
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