In another Aish.com video (http://www.aish.com/literacy/concepts/Why_Not_Intermarry$1.asp) by Minister of Information Becher, he cries and whines about intermarriage to a nonorthodox but jewish audience. What he does not say is that, you can't become involved with someone orthodox if you are not orthodox yourself.
If you are not orthodox, Minister of Information Becher wants to boss around who you can and cannot marry, and as a religious rule, orthodox jews don't get romantically involved with nonorthodox jews. In other words, "You can only marry with other Jews, but us Jews are more equal than the rest of the Jews and we are too good for you."
Again in other words, when it comes to dating and marriage, nonorthodox jews or people who don't follow their lifestyle and beliefs 100%, are just as gentile as the gentiles.
There is a very good reason for avoiding having an orthodox spouse. For example, let us say I am married to an orthodox woman and I get bored on Shabbat, I'm gonna play a computer game because I like computer games. What will the orthodox woman do? Cry and rant that I am a sinner and say that I should stop or be issued a demand for divorce. Get the picture? I don't need a marriage ruined over a damn computer game, and I am sure you don't need your marriage ruined over something you like to do for fun. Shabbat is the only rest day I have ever heard of in which you can't do anything you want for fun and you have to dress formally for it.
Orthodox Judaism is way too strict for an all or nothing deal. Stay away from them if you want a happy marriage.
I would like to make a comment about divorce rates in orthodox judaism ... because women are not allowed to issue divorces in orthodox judaism and orthodox men sometimes refuse to give gets ... the "small" divorce rate in orthodox judaism is rigged. If women were allowed to divorce in orthodox judaism, their divorce rate would be higher.
21 comments:
If your idea of happiness in marriage is being able to play video games on saturday, you need to grow up a lot
there's no rule against video games.
Hey SJ! We'd love to mirror this post as a guest post on Pravda Ne'eman, if that's ok with you.
ok
So let me see if I get your thinking straight - two people with incompatible lifestyles get married and then are shocked when things don't work out?
Of course Orthodox people only marry other Orthodox people! Duh! I'm also pretty sure that members of PETA don't marry butchers and barbeque salesmen. People who hate dogs don't marry dog groomers. Why? Because it wouldn't work out. It doesn't mean the two people can't respect each other's positions as friends but obviously since their lifestyles don't mix, marrying would be a bad idea.
Why do you see this as a crime?
Never mind, I know the answer.
Ok wise guy, the difference is, PETA is not blathering about any kind of unity and then treating the people who PETA wants to unify with as second rate.
Sorry I haven't responded until now. I've been doing things that matter.
> and then treating the people who PETA wants to unify with as second rate.
Sure they are. They want animal cruelty, which for them includes eating meat, outlawed. They want society unified around this and for now meat-eaters are second class.
Anyway, you're wrong so there's no point going on. Good news! I found you a new friend:
www.offthed.blogspot.com
>> Sure they are. They want animal cruelty, which for them includes eating meat, outlawed. They want society unified around this and for now meat-eaters are second class.
1) PETA is a single issue adovcacy group. The regulations of orthodox judaism encompasses one's entire being.
2) PETA does not try to say no intermarrying with meat eaters.
3) PETA does not require a dress code or dietary laws of its followers or any other nonsense ritual for that matter.
> 1) PETA is a single issue adovcacy group.
But their single issue addresses what I eat, what I wear, what I benefit from in many areas of medicine and science...
> 2) PETA does not try to say no intermarrying with meat eaters.
But what real PETA person would marry a steak lover? Come on!
> 3) PETA does not require a dress code
No, they just make those girls wear lettuce bikinis in public.
> or dietary laws of its followers
Do you think before you type? It's PETA. They are entirely based on dietary laws about avoiding animal products.
Duh!
>> But their single issue addresses what I eat, what I wear, what I benefit from in many areas of medicine and science...
That still does not equal orthodox judaism because PETA is not a religious code that requires dietary and dress code laws. I don't see how PETA effects medicine and science.
>> But what real PETA person would marry a steak lover? Come on!
it is a fallacy to base your argument on an a priori assumption, but since you're religious, gravitating to the a priori is nothing new.
>> Do you think before you type? It's PETA. They are entirely based on dietary laws about avoiding animal products.
its site does have a section on vegetarianism but peta's version of dietary guidelines is no where near equal force of judaism's dietary laws i.e. peta is not a religion, peta does not advocate shunning meat eaters.
> I don't see how PETA effects medicine and science.
Opposition to the use of animals in scientific and medical experiments.
> it is a fallacy to base your argument on an a priori assumption,
In this case it's common sense. I know that's a hard concept for you but next time I'll try to type slower and use shorter words so you can keep up.
> its site does have a section on vegetarianism but peta's version of dietary guidelines
That's like saying the United States constitution does have a section on freedom of speech but...
Buddy, vegetarianism is one of their pillars. They wouldn't be PETA without it.
>> Opposition to the use of animals in scientific and medical experiments.
Othodox judiasm is worse for banning autopsy. If the whole world were orthodox jews, we wouldn't have biology and medicine to begin with and rashi would just be a crack pot who talked too much.
>> In this case it's common sense. I know that's a hard concept for you but next time I'll try to type slower and use shorter words so you can keep up.
It might be considered "common sense" for someone who is conservative in his views on American politics to be conservative (lowercase c not referring to conservative movement) in his religious views. I am personally conservative in American politics and reform/conservative(conservative movement) in my religious views.
It also may be common sense for someone to think that someone who is likud-leaning in israeli politics would be conservative in american politics. There are people who are likud-leaning in israeli politics and in fact liberal in American politics.
The point is unlike chemistry, real life is not always based on a textbook when it comes to people.
>> Buddy, vegetarianism is one of their pillars
I did not say something in contrast to that. What I said that because of the facts that peta is not a religion and that peta does not advocate shunning meat eaters, their view of vegetarianism does not have equal force to judaism's view of kasharut.
The divorce rate is actually "rigged" to be higher then it would otherwise be. We are surrounded by a society with a %50 rate which influences the Orthodox. If we would be surrounded by a society with a %2 rate, our rate would be lower.
And in the outside world, there are also big disincentives to divorce. Financial pressures, social stigmas, effect on children, relative freedom to have illicit relationships.
michoel your post is disingenuous and disgusting on two fronts,
1) don't blame outsiders for the marital problems of individual orthodox jews.
2) the disincentives to divorce are nothin like the disincentives in the orthodox world. The disincentives to divorce in the outside world are natural due to living in a democratic/capitalist society whereas the disincentives in the orthodox world are cultlike putting a supernatural stigma on the woman.
I'm sorry, I came across your blog completely by accident...and all I have to say is: that is such crap. OF COURSE you have to marry a person who is on your level. 1) Why would an orthodox person want to marry a non-orthodox person, 2) why would a non-orthodox person want to marry an orthodox person??? They have completely different goals, ideas, and life style requirements and wants. One is not better than the other - they merely have different ideas about how they want to live their lives. No one is claiming to be better or worse.
>> No one is claiming to be better or worse.
This is a total lie that can send the polygraphs off the charts.
you are so jaded.
because I caught you at a lie?
no...because you are clearly so resentful and there is obviously nothing anyone can say to change your mind. You're just going to rant about how much you hate everything about Orthodoxy - and that's it...
>> You're just going to rant about how much you hate everything about Orthodoxy - and that's it...
duh, i'm a dissenter not a skeptic. In free countries this is actually ALLOWED.
>> You're just going to rant about how much you hate everything about Orthodoxy - and that's it...
Are you trying to say that orthodox judaism should not be debated? Cause let me tell you something lucy, the list of skeptics and dissenters of orthodox judaism is growing on the blogosphere. And orthodox judaism will be debated.
My maternal grandparents were a
"mixed couple"- my grandmother was very religious, the grand-daughter of a rabbi, and my grandfather, although traditional, was Not religious. They loved each other in their own way. I would not be the man I am without being descended from all my grandparents on both sides. However I am Sephardic, and I guess sadly we Jews copy our attitudes from the "goyim" around us. For all it's bad points, in the recent past Islam did not heavily de-marcate between more and less observant people. So Jews in Arab countries took the same attitude. Sadly, we are all falling prey to this "goyishe" European attitude about religion that it's "my way or the highway"- from what I have seen of so many posts on All Kinds of Jewish sites- Reform/ Conservative/ Orthodox/ Ultra-O, etc.- everyone has the attitude of
"it's my way or the highway"- whether Explicitly, in the case of O and UO, or Implicitly, in the case of R and C. The result is the same- stupidity and disunity.
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